Please don't get upset at me. I posted something similar recently but it didn't describe it properly.
I thinking of a cooling mechanism for houses and building in which the cooling -- in the direct sense -- involves only radiation and no convection at all. Sorta like a radiant-stove-top in reverse. Indirectly, however, some amount of convection and conduction will be needed [liquid helium, cold metals]. The cooling panel is the ceiling and cools objects below it.
My visualization is that the radiant cooling panel contain extremely cold metallic coils [cooled by liquid helium to almost absolute zero], this would probably be deepest part of the panel.
Here, another question arises. Which is better to use -- Helium-3 or Helium-4? Which one would have a stronger cooling effect if both were at the same temperature?
The radiant cooling panel is the ceiling. It has 3 layers.
Layer 1: a material that allows heat radiation to pass through but is a very poor conductor of heat Layer 2: the same material found on the very top of radiant stove tops Layer 3: this is the deepest part containing the cool metallic coils. Inside these coils are where the liquid helium would be flowing through]
Layers 2 & 3 don't have any air molecules around them. The cold metal coils are in a vacuum so they are not exposed to any air that would solidify/liquefy. This means the space between layer 1 & 2 is also a vacuum free of air.
There is dehumidification which is separate from the cooling.
Dehumidification is done by air processing devices on walls -- left, right, back, front. These walls give out and take in air. There is both re-circulation and fresh air. For fresh air, all vapors molecules are let into the room -- excluding H20, CO2, gases with odors, toxic vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke or allergens. For re-circulation, air in the room is sucked, cleaned [i.e. H20, CO2, toxic vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke and allergens are removed] and then blown back into the room. In either case, the amount of air-molecules-per-second-per-square-meter that is sucked out of the room is the same is the amount of air-molecules-per- second-per-square-meter the is blown into the room -- and visa versa. Hence, the subject in the room doesn't feel any sucking or blowing.
The result is that the room now contains only N2 and O2 -- if you exclude the CO2 and H2O-vapor emitted from the living subject[s]. The N2 and O2 are kept at no less than least 70 degress Fahrenheit -- via convection heating if the ambient temperature is less than 70 F -- to prevent them from liquefying or solidifying. I know it's ironic that the air would have to be heated in order to assist in preventing the radiant cooler from failing. Still interesting, though.
Yes, heat absorbed into the radiant cooling panels is carried off using convection -- but this is not what the subject inside the room feels. The direct cooling effect on anything/anyone inside the room is radiant.
Can anyone suggest a better manner for direct radiant cooling? If so, please explain
By direct radiant cooling, I mean that if you place your body at a noticeable distance from from panel, you'll feel cold because the extreme cold of the coil will draw IR radiation away from your body. OTOH, if you touch the panel, you won't feel as cold because the 1st layer of the panel is a very poor conductor of heat.
On the ceiling, layer 1 is the lower than layer 2. Layer 3 is the highest.
> Please don't get upset at me. I posted something similar recently but > it didn't describe it properly.
> I thinking of a cooling mechanism for houses and building in which the > cooling -- in the direct sense -- involves only radiation and no > convection at all. Sorta like a radiant-stove-top in reverse. > Indirectly, however, some amount of convection and conduction will be > needed [liquid helium, cold metals]. The cooling panel is the ceiling > and cools objects below it.
> My visualization is that the radiant cooling panel contain extremely > cold metallic coils [cooled by liquid helium to almost absolute zero], > this would probably be deepest part of the panel.
> Here, another question arises. Which is better to use -- Helium-3 or > Helium-4? Which one would have a stronger cooling effect if both were > at the same temperature?
> The radiant cooling panel is the ceiling. It has 3 layers.
> Layer 1: a material that allows heat radiation to pass through but is > a very poor conductor of heat > Layer 2: the same material found on the very top of radiant stove > tops > Layer 3: this is the deepest part containing the cool metallic coils. > Inside these coils are where the liquid helium would be flowing > through]
> Layers 2 & 3 don't have any air molecules around them. The cold metal > coils are in a vacuum so they are not exposed to any air that would > solidify/liquefy. This means the space between layer 1 & 2 is also a > vacuum free of air.
> There is dehumidification which is separate from the cooling.
> Dehumidification is done by air processing devices on walls -- left, > right, back, front. These walls give out and take in air. There is > both re-circulation and fresh air. For fresh air, all vapors molecules > are let into the room -- excluding H20, CO2, gases with odors, toxic > vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke or allergens. For > re-circulation, air in the room is sucked, cleaned [i.e. H20, CO2, > toxic vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke and > allergens are removed] and then blown back into the room. In either > case, the amount of air-molecules-per-second-per-square-meter that is > sucked out of the room is the same is the amount of air-molecules-per- > second-per-square-meter the is blown into the room -- and visa versa. > Hence, the subject in the room doesn't feel any sucking or blowing.
> The result is that the room now contains only N2 and O2 -- if you > exclude the CO2 and H2O-vapor emitted from the living subject[s]. The > N2 and O2 are kept at no less than least 70 degress Fahrenheit -- via > convection heating if the ambient temperature is less than 70 F -- to > prevent them from liquefying or solidifying. I know it's ironic that > the air would have to be heated in order to assist in preventing the > radiant cooler from failing. Still interesting, though.
> Yes, heat absorbed into the radiant cooling panels is carried off > using convection -- but this is not what the subject inside the room > feels. The direct cooling effect on anything/anyone inside the room is > radiant.
> Can anyone suggest a better manner for direct radiant cooling? If so, > please explain
> By direct radiant cooling, I mean that if you place your body at a > noticeable distance from from panel, you'll feel cold because the > extreme cold of the coil will draw IR radiation away from your body. > OTOH, if you touch the panel, you won't feel as cold because the 1st > layer of the panel is a very poor conductor of heat.
> On the ceiling, layer 1 is the lower than layer 2. Layer 3 is the > highest.
> Thanks a bunch,
> Radium
Maybe if you told us what the intended application is.....
I can't even visualize any application where it would be cost effective to use a system like that. Just the liquid helium would make it cost prohibitive.
Please don't get upset at me. I posted something similar recently but it didn't describe it properly.
I thinking of a cooling mechanism for houses and building in which the cooling -- in the direct sense -- involves only radiation and no convection at all. Sorta like a radiant-stove-top in reverse. Indirectly, however, some amount of convection and conduction will be needed [liquid helium, cold metals]. The cooling panel is the ceiling and cools objects below it.
My visualization is that the radiant cooling panel contain extremely cold metallic coils [cooled by liquid helium to almost absolute zero], this would probably be deepest part of the panel.
Here, another question arises. Which is better to use -- Helium-3 or Helium-4? Which one would have a stronger cooling effect if both were at the same temperature?
The radiant cooling panel is the ceiling. It has 3 layers.
Layer 1: a material that allows heat radiation to pass through but is a very poor conductor of heat Layer 2: the same material found on the very top of radiant stove tops Layer 3: this is the deepest part containing the cool metallic coils. Inside these coils are where the liquid helium would be flowing through]
Layers 2 & 3 don't have any air molecules around them. The cold metal coils are in a vacuum so they are not exposed to any air that would solidify/liquefy. This means the space between layer 1 & 2 is also a vacuum free of air.
There is dehumidification which is separate from the cooling.
Dehumidification is done by air processing devices on walls -- left, right, back, front. These walls give out and take in air. There is both re-circulation and fresh air. For fresh air, all vapors molecules are let into the room -- excluding H20, CO2, gases with odors, toxic vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke or allergens. For re-circulation, air in the room is sucked, cleaned [i.e. H20, CO2, toxic vapors [such as CO], dust, irritating vapors, smoke and allergens are removed] and then blown back into the room. In either case, the amount of air-molecules-per-second-per-square-meter that is sucked out of the room is the same is the amount of air-molecules-per- second-per-square-meter the is blown into the room -- and visa versa. Hence, the subject in the room doesn't feel any sucking or blowing.
The result is that the room now contains only N2 and O2 -- if you exclude the CO2 and H2O-vapor emitted from the living subject[s]. The N2 and O2 are kept at no less than least 70 degress Fahrenheit -- via convection heating if the ambient temperature is less than 70 F -- to prevent them from liquefying or solidifying. I know it's ironic that the air would have to be heated in order to assist in preventing the radiant cooler from failing. Still interesting, though.
Yes, heat absorbed into the radiant cooling panels is carried off using convection -- but this is not what the subject inside the room feels. The direct cooling effect on anything/anyone inside the room is radiant.
Can anyone suggest a better manner for direct radiant cooling? If so, please explain
By direct radiant cooling, I mean that if you place your body at a noticeable distance from from panel, you'll feel cold because the extreme cold of the coil will draw IR radiation away from your body. OTOH, if you touch the panel, you won't feel as cold because the 1st layer of the panel is a very poor conductor of heat.
On the ceiling, layer 1 is the lower than layer 2. Layer 3 is the highest.
On Aug 7, 4:28 pm, "Noon-Air" <Noon-...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Maybe if you told us what the intended application is.....
It is to keep a room comfortably cold during the summer.
> I can't even visualize any application where it would be cost effective to > use a system like that. Just the liquid helium would make it cost > prohibitive.
Call me weird but I prefer my cooling to be directly-radiant and heating to directly involved natural convection of dry air. Just something about radiant cooling that gets my interests going.
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Give it up, you fool. Cold doesn't radiate.
It doesn't but it can cool you by causing you to radiate heat towards it. The radiant cooler is cold, the subject in the room under the cooler is hot. Physics will attempt to equalize the temperature of the two objects. If there is no conduction or convection between the two objects, then the attempt will be facilitated by making the hotter object emit thermal radiation toward the colder object. This is will cool the hotter object. If you are the hotter object, you will feel cold under the radiant cooler.
> On Aug 7, 4:28 pm, "Noon-Air" <Noon-...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Maybe if you told us what the intended application is.....
> It is to keep a room comfortably cold during the summer.
>> I can't even visualize any application where it would be cost effective >> to >> use a system like that. Just the liquid helium would make it cost >> prohibitive.
> Call me weird but I prefer my cooling to be directly-radiant and > heating to directly involved natural convection of dry air. Just > something about radiant cooling that gets my interests going.
Maybe you should be looking at a system that will cost less than the house its going into.
> >> Maybe if you told us what the intended application is.....
> > It is to keep a room comfortably cold during the summer.
> >> I can't even visualize any application where it would be cost effective > >> to > >> use a system like that. Just the liquid helium would make it cost > >> prohibitive.
> > Call me weird but I prefer my cooling to be directly-radiant and > > heating to directly involved natural convection of dry air. Just > > something about radiant cooling that gets my interests going.
> Maybe you should be looking at a system that will cost less than the house > its going into.
Not to mention such a system would instantly cause severe frostburn should any body parts come into contact with it.
>> >> Maybe if you told us what the intended application is.....
>> > It is to keep a room comfortably cold during the summer.
>> >> I can't even visualize any application where it would be cost effective >> >> to >> >> use a system like that. Just the liquid helium would make it cost >> >> prohibitive.
>> > Call me weird but I prefer my cooling to be directly-radiant and >> > heating to directly involved natural convection of dry air.
Seeing as you are totally unfamiliar with the terms you are using, you should avoid using them
>Just >> > something about radiant cooling that gets my interests going.
>> Maybe you should be looking at a system that will cost less than the house >> its going into.
>Not to mention such a system would instantly cause severe frostburn should >any body parts come into contact with it.
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On Aug 9, 4:48 pm, "over a barrel" <precisionmachin...@COLDmail.com> wrote:
> Not to mention such a system would instantly cause severe frostburn should > any body parts come into contact with it.
Why would frostbite occur? The lowest layer [the one a body part would most likely contact] is an extremely poor conductor of heat, so it wouldn't feel that cold. It's the radiant cooling, that would feel cold.
