Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on the staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first string at the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would also mean that the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the open third string)?
> Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on the > staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first string > at > the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would also mean that > the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the open third string)?
Costanza wrote: > Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on > the staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first > string at the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would > also mean that the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the > open third string)?
It's kind of a trick answer.
Leave guitar out of the picture for a minute.
The treble clef circles the 2nd line of the staff. That 2nd line is G4 or G above middle C.
In guitar notation, we use treble cleff (normally). That G4 on the 2nd line is what we play on the open 3rd string, as you suggest above.
BUT
The guitar is a transposing instrument. When we play that G on the 2nd line, we are actually SOUNDING the G that is an octave LOWER (G3). If a guitar and a piano played the same 2nd line G, the guitar would be an octave LOWER than the piano.
Sometimes, on the tail hook of the treble clef you'll see the little italic "8va" or "8vb". The loose English translation of those symbols is "Octave ABOVE" and "Octave BELOW". To be most correct, guitar notation would be written with an "8vb" at the bottom of it's treble clef, meaning "Play an octave lower than notated". But we typically don't see that in guitar notation. Instead we simply see the naked treble clef. It's assumed that the tones we produce are automatically an octave lower than written.
So, in answer to your question, the treble clef DOES nail down WHICH G it circles. In terms of guitar, the simple answer is that the 2nd line G is the open 3rd string.
Human voices and some other instruments, typically transpose up or down an octave, like guitars do. It's simply a matter of convenience to try and reduce the number of ledger lines above or below the main staff.
> Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on the > staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first string > at > the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would also mean that > the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the open third string)?
> Thanks.
No. The vocal tenor cleff does. If the music is specifically written for guitar it is assumed that you know what to do. The same applies to other instruments.
On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:24:15 +0000, Costanza wrote: > Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on the > staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first string > at the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would also mean > that the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the open third > string)?
> Thanks.
See "ottava bassa" at the Dolmetsch music theory site. daveA
A few minutes of effort to make it sound right as written is worth a thousand hours of trying to rewrite it, and even if you do end in rewriting it, the result will be a million times better if you do the few minutes first.
> Costanza wrote: >> Does the treble clef nail down the particular octaves represented on >> the staff and indicate that the G above the top line equals the first >> string at the third fret on a traditionally tuned guitar (which would >> also mean that the G on the line that the clef encircles equals the >> open third string)?
> It's kind of a trick answer.
> Leave guitar out of the picture for a minute.
> The treble clef circles the 2nd line of the staff. > That 2nd line is G4 or G above middle C.
> In guitar notation, we use treble cleff (normally). > That G4 on the 2nd line is what we play on the > open 3rd string, as you suggest above.
> BUT
> The guitar is a transposing instrument. > When we play that G on the 2nd line, we are > actually SOUNDING the G that is an octave LOWER (G3). > If a guitar and a piano played the same 2nd line G, > the guitar would be an octave LOWER than the piano.
> Sometimes, on the tail hook of the treble clef you'll > see the little italic "8va" or "8vb". The loose English > translation of those symbols is "Octave ABOVE" and > "Octave BELOW". To be most correct, guitar notation would > be written with an "8vb" at the bottom of it's treble clef, > meaning "Play an octave lower than notated". But we typically > don't see that in guitar notation. Instead we simply see the > naked treble clef. It's assumed that the tones we produce > are automatically an octave lower than written.
> So, in answer to your question, the treble clef DOES > nail down WHICH G it circles. In terms of guitar, the > simple answer is that the 2nd line G is the open 3rd string.
> Human voices and some other instruments, typically transpose > up or down an octave, like guitars do. It's simply a matter of > convenience to try and reduce the number of ledger lines above > or below the main staff.
All of the clefs cover parts of the musical range. The G clef might be thought of as the "soprano" clef, it covers the higher notes. As others have pointed out guitar music is written in the treble clef but the actual notes that you play on the guitar are an octave lower. No need to worry about this till you start playing with other musicians.
David L. Martel wrote: > ... guitar music is written in the treble > clef but the actual notes that you play on the guitar are an octave > lower. No need to worry about this till you start playing with other > musicians.
> David L. Martel wrote: >> ... guitar music is written in the treble >> clef but the actual notes that you play on the guitar are an octave >> lower.
I'll admit I never knew that and I went to my piano and checked it and the G above middle C on the piano sounds very close to the open G string. I must be tone deaf. The G below sounds lower to me.
On 04 Jul 2008, "ythread" <ythr...@att.net> wrote in alt.guitar.beginner:
> I'll admit I never knew that and I went to my piano and checked it > and the G above middle C on the piano sounds very close to the > open G string. I must be tone deaf. The G below sounds lower to > me.
It's often hard to distinguish between the same note in different octaves when comparing different instruments. Sometimes the higher overtones can tend to obscure the fundamental, which is what the octave is named after. Plus, the ear (at least mine) tends to regard most octaves except maybe the most extreme high and low ones as being interchangeable for most purposes. It's when you start arranging for various instruments when it becomes most important.
> On 04 Jul 2008, "ythread" <ythr...@att.net> wrote in > alt.guitar.beginner:
>> I'll admit I never knew that and I went to my piano and checked it >> and the G above middle C on the piano sounds very close to the >> open G string. I must be tone deaf. The G below sounds lower to >> me.
> It's often hard to distinguish between the same note in different > octaves when comparing different instruments. Sometimes the higher > overtones can tend to obscure the fundamental, which is what the octave > is named after. Plus, the ear (at least mine) tends to regard most > octaves except maybe the most extreme high and low ones as being > interchangeable for most purposes. It's when you start arranging for > various instruments when it becomes most important.
It must be the piano's overtones. They are fuller than any other instrument and must p/u the higher tones. But the higher G does sound closer to me. Much closer. :-) ? Oh well. Like I said I'm tone deaf!
